Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

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Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:51 am

It sure seems like a second PS pump would fit where the air pump used to fit. Anyone running steering assist that is interested in adding a second pump to run the hydroboost like this? I've got some ideas on it we could hash it out and I know a guy with a Scrambler looking to do it on his rig...

Here's a thumbnail of the airpump installed (on a single groove alternator pulley system) to give an idea of clearancing around it which should be of no issue:

Image
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Re: Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:24 pm

Ok, Well Jason got busy on other stuff and so since I have a motor sitting here on a test stand with a PS pump bracket that was designed to also hold a airpump I started on this using an Astro van PS pump and got a couple ideas.

Held by hand this is the approximate positioning of the airpump:

Image Image

This is the approximate postioning of the Astro van pump (before I installed the pulley):

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Using a bolt I had laying around and spacer from an alternator this might be one way to tie the front and rear brackets I will make together:

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Here's the Astro pump, now the logic is that the pump will fit in the same place, allow all the clearance required to adjust the belt, use the same belt as the air pump, and also it will cock the pump so the large filler hose is positioned correctly to permit the remote reservoir to both mount low enough to clear the hood and flow directly into the pump housing:

Image

Using the Astro bracket off the back for a template I'm extending it so the bolt with the spacer will pass through the bracket to the inside of the section of bracket bolted to the pump. This will be the pivot point which is why I want to tie it into the front bracket I'll be forming:

Image Image

Cut large enough to float it around some while I try and pick out where I want the bolt hole for the pivot point to go:

Image

Now, if you recall... on the AMC pump mounted above this it also has a bracket with a square notch cut in it to place a breaker bar in order to lever the pump against the belt to tighten the works. This bracket is a mock up and I may add a an extension on it at the end to permit the same function but I'm not sure it's going to be neccessary. You can notice that they didn't make anything like that for the air pump and you won't get much flex out of the small pulley belt so I think I'll be able to just lever down on the 2nd pump with something like a short 2x4 against the upper pump to take up any slack. If that doesn't work then I'll extend the bracket and notch it for a 1/2" breaker bar or socket wrench. Jason was looking at doing something similar only modifying an AMC bracket to work here which would be fine but it won't be able to be used for an extended pivot point to the inside like I'm attempting.
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Re: Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:03 pm

More pics for you.... I start with checking out how exactly the airpump was mounted and attempt to use the same bolts only with the bracket I made for the back (with two 3/8 flat washers between it and the aluminum bracket to create the correct pulley spacing). The adjuster bar for the airpump is maybe 1/2" short to make it to the pump bolt hole I want to use, so I will make another one (possibly cut from a alternator bracket) and then it needs a bushing to the pump which will be about 3/8" thick. I want to create another bracket for the front which effectively duplicates the rear bracket as that will allow me to tie two of the front stud holes to the bracket and it will piviot off the same long bolt and firm up the assembly, this will require that I shorten the alternator spacer that I am using for the main pivot bolt spacer.

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Alternator spacer with the main pivot bolt:

Image Image Image Image Image Image

Lining things up:

Image Image Image Image
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Re: Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:09 pm

The picture quality isn't too hot on this camera when using the flash... and I forgot to show you how I ended up cutting that rear bracket to fit at the pivot bolt so I'll get a pic of that tomorrow maybe... or this weekend. I could have angled it a little differently to rotate the housing so the top filler hose would rotate towards the top and that might have allowed me to use the airpump adjuster bracket. I don't think that even on the GM trucks that filler hose was directly at the top however so I'm not concerned about the fluid level as it will stay full with that remote reservoir and large hose coupled with being fed by the return from the HB.
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Re: Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:09 pm

Ok today I got the new adjuster cut out and it's 1" longer than the one used for the airpump. I found that because I had kept some scrap Jeep frame that it was a great thickness for these brackets on the front of the pump. Here's a couple of better pics showing the arrangement before I worked the brackets. I'll add more when the brackets are done and I have the spacers under them at the front of the pump, the adjuster takes a 3/8" spacer under it. I'm sorting the other two spacers for the front stabilizing bracket which ties into the pivot bolt.

Image Image

Here's a shot of the rear bracket and it's cut from 3/16". When fit to the OEM aluminum bracket there are two 3/8" flat washers between this bracket and the aluminum one at the pivot bolt, then I have a alternator spacer on that pivot bolt which is just the right size to line up with the front airpump bracket, and then the front pump stablizing bracket will fit on the outside of airpump bracket. I'm re-using the airpump bolt for the pivot bolt, just as it worked on the airpump. I think you can tell here that I could have angled the section of the rear pivot bracket a little differently to put more rotation on the pump which would have placed the filler neck more vertically. For now, I just built the front stabilizing bracket to match. I can fine tune the bracketry later once I make sure this all lines up and everything clears as well as it seems to.

Image
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Re: Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:28 pm

I fit the brackets up to the front and found the way I had built it required me to add spacers on the studs to the point that the pulley would hit on two of them so I have to redesign the front bracket to fit around part of the casting on the pump body in order to drop it about 1/2". Since I have to rework it I guess I may as well rework the rear bracket at the same time to build in enough rotation to put the filler neck closer to the top. This will likely also permit a shorter adjuster bracket meaning the stock airpump adjuster bracket will likely work.

Here's where I'm at:

Image
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Re: Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:31 pm

Ok, that mod to the brackets worked out good. It rotated the inlet up and allowed me to use the OEM airpump belt tensioner bracket. I'll pull it all back apart to get pics (my camera did some wierd stuff tonight or I'd have pics for you) and get the parts listed out that are needed. I'll make some tracings for Larry to do up some CAD... and once Jason tests them out on the trail I'll put them into production.
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Re: Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:33 pm

These are the roughups, I think it will work. Need to put two 3/8" flat washers behind the rear bracket on the pivot bolt to pull the bracket away from the aluminum PS mount frame so it can rotate without hitting it. That rear bracket is heavier at 3/16". Need two 3/8" bolt spacers on the pump, one under the pump belt tensioner bracket and one under the bottom inside bolt.

Image Image Image Image Image Image

I left this bracket on the long side, will trim it down later but I want to cut a notch in it for a 3/8" drive wrench for tighening the belt.

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There have been some minor improvements made to the front and rear pump mount brackets and I'll add those pics after I get a run of parts back from the shop to show this stuff off for you if the testing works as well as expected.
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Re: Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:31 am

To plumb this I have been advised by Michael (on IFSJA) who's done a different designated pump set up to run the pressure out from the HB into your reservoir along with the return line. In my truck I plan to use the Appleton reservoir/cooler/filter, and I will likely install a Tee fitting with the return line entering at the 90* while leaving the pressure line to flow straight through. PSC also sells various remote reservoirs, line fittings and the low, high pressure hoses as well as the large filler hose & fittings needed for this pump.

Image
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Re: Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:33 pm

Ok, I'm dialed in. Added yet a little more rotation to be sure that the OEM brackets can be used if you don't want to use my full set... spec'd out all the bolts, washers, bushings required for the install, made up drawings with some reshaping and included the notch for a 3/8" rachet to tighten the belt... and now they go off to Larry to be put in CAD. When Jason field tests it, proves it's all good, I'll dump some money into a run of brackets at the local laser shop and make these available as a kit... figuring y'all can source your own pump and 5" AMC dual groove pulley.

I'll try and keep one or two pulleys and pumps around for folks who don't have any yards in their area or have to pay to have parts pulled there (I detest that). The reservoirs you can source at PSC who also carriesthe hoses if you want the cheaper rubber ones, Talon also has braided hoses and Howe Performance has some nice looking pushloc hoses. I'll eventually get into making hoses myself after I get some other cool stuff produced that's coming at you.;) Keep your fingers crossed that the single belt system on this works out well. :cool: More good stuff coming.... :stirpot:

If you are looking to run this in combo with a dual AC pump mount for OBA and AC then contact: SEARCHERS 4WD Supply and Outfitters
http://www.Searchers4wd.com
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Re: Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:06 am

Here is some info from PSC on running the remote reservoir effeciently: http://www.pscmotorsports.com/tech/reservoir_tips.pdf

If you note the rotation of the pump in thier example, in the first pic on that page, I'm pretty sure that's where I'm dialed at with on these brackets now. (the brackets in my drawing for production added rotation over what you see in the last pics here)

I also like their hose kits and plan to make a trip down there to check these out so I can spec out exactly what is required with this system... once I figure the best place to mount the remote reservoir.
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Re: Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:45 pm

Here's some dimensions and hardware parts listing for everyone, in single and dual alternator pulley groove configurations:

Image Image Image Image Image Image

The drawings were mailed to Larry for CAD today. :arrow:
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Re: Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:27 pm

The shop got the CAD today, Thank You Larry! Might have some parts back by the end of the week... trying to negotiate the run for all four brackets. Given that Howe Performance ran their two TC pump setup off of one belt I'm willing to wager the cost of production that this will do everything it's intended to. I'll let y'all know when the parts are back (Friday?) so I can price a setup.

I have two used pumps on hand if anyone needs a pump also... and then I have to collect some more spacers for the pivot bolt and pick up some more bolts/washers, ect. to give you a bolt in deal. Source your own hoses/fittings and reservoir at PSC. Either get a reservoir with three bungs or just two and tee in the return from the HB and the pressure out from the HB to the smaller bung.

I'll add some pics and a shot of it in my '65 truck as it'll be getting a Dodge rotated HB, the cooler n'works.

Without knowing the cost... who wants the first set of four brackets?
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Re: Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:05 pm

Got the brackets back, these will be $65 for the four brackets. A bolt and spacer kit is available but it's $38. right now until I'm able to eliminate the chrome spacers by cutting my own from the 3/4" round stock I just bought... should about halve the price on these. I'm going to have the rear pump bracket redone in 3/16" to match the rest of the brackets, 1/4" just isn't needed. I'll hand cut the rear brackets until I can afford to have another run of those done.
Here's some pics, I'll get installed pics this weekend. The notch on the front bracket is for a 3/8" rachet to tighten the belt.

Image Image Image Image


I'll see about stuffing it in my '65 truck with the motor that is in there so you can see the fit up and have an idea (with the 3" body lift) how you might want to locate your reservoir.
LMK what'cha think....
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Re: Who's gonna build a second PS pump mount for Hydroboost?

Postby Elliott » Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:01 am

Image Image Image Image

I think if I pull the plastic radiator overflow tank out the Appleton reservoir/cooler/filter will mount very nicely right off the core support with a bracket and then I'll look for another radiator overflow tank to maybe mount under it off another bracket. More pics coming...
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